Saturday, August 14, 2010

Lazy Thinkin' is Just Stinkin' Thinkin'

So I understand there's this big hullabaloo regarding a possible mosque near Ground Zero. I, personally, don't see what all the fuss is about other than some of you folks out there just really get a lot out of being offended. You'll play that card as quick as you can and as often as you can with even the slightest provocation.

This of course isn't directly meant for those who lost loved ones in that terrible tragedy... we're talking about the big mouthed outsiders *cough*Sarah Palin*cough* who are using this opportunity to stir the pot *cough*John Boehner*cough for their own personal gain *cough*Fox News*cough*choke*hack*.

It's really quite tiring keeping up with some of you. I can see why you found a safe haven amidst the whiny crybabies over at all those teabag rallies, where misapplied anger and illogical indignation play just likes strings on a Tennessee fiddle.

What... exactly... is the harm of building a mosque in one of the most ethnically diverse cities in the country?

"It's on the site of 9/11!! That's hallowed ground!!"

Um... no. It's actually *near* the site of 9/11 in the not so hallowed ground of a former Burlington Coat Factory. And while we're on the topic, it's not even really a mosque but an Islamic cultural center. So I'm still not seeing the problem.

Especially since also within blocks of Ground Zero, on this supposedly "hallowed ground", sit TWO good ol American STRIP CLUBS and a LINGERIE STORE.

Naked women in skimpy clothing? No one bats an eye. Center for religious tolerance and education? Well, clearly they must be stopped.

"They killed over 3000 Americans in 9/11!"

Actually, no *they* did not. The entire Muslim world is not responsible for a deviant sect run by a madman who uses religion to control those who have misapplied anger and illogical indignation. *cough*Fred Phelps*cough*

What I find especially interesting is that people will say this comment and usually precede it with "I'm not a racist/bigot but..."

Not to disparage your education but the definition of a bigot is "One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ."

Protesting a building that will house a differing point of view kind of applies here. You're judging an entire group of people based on the actions of a few - that, at its heart - is bigotry.

Throwing bigotry and fear on top of misapplied anger and illogical indignation is how you get events like 9/11. Just sayin'.

"Islam is a violent religion!"

If we're going to split hairs about the casualties of religion, Christianity doesn't come off much better after things like, oh I dunno... The Crusades, the Inquisition, Salem witch hunts, the KKK and Timothy McVeigh. People who say this usually pick a few passages out of an entire book they haven't read. Apparently they haven't read the Bible either because it is pretty darned violent in some spots - ironically all outside of what actually deals with Jesus. Jesus was a pacifist of the highest order, which is probably why he was murdered by an angry few in authority who were afraid of his radical new message about peace and forgiveness.

Hum... sounds familiar....

"Doesn't this shlub Obama read history? The Muslims for centuries have built mosques on top of areas where there have won a major victory. They believe that killing over 3000 Americans is a major victory." - (word for word question from a Palin supporter on her Facebook page)

Um... yeah. Just to be clear... what was the "victory" that "Muslims" won here? Three thousand lives were lost in a very tragic and bloodthirsty event on American soil. But the thing that sect - not the Muslim religion but a DEVIANT SECT - sought to combat was our western culture. It still thrives as normal in clear defiance of this attack, as evidenced by the fact that we won't blink an eye as a culture about a couple of strip clubs within walking distance of this revered crime scene.

Plus we went over and bombed the bejeezus out of Iraq and killed about 100,000 people (and counting). Considering that over 90 percent of Iraqis are Muslim, I think we got em covered on the whole "eye for an eye" thing by ten fold. Especially when they weren't even responsible for 9/11... but that's another blog entirely.

The only way that the DEVIANT SECT has any victory at all is if it changes us from who we are as a nation, if their actions make us turn our backs on our own principles that make this country great (such as religious freedom).

You know, kinda like when we turn our backs on the constitution and protest a mosque being built.

"But America is a Christian nation!"

Ya know... I realize history is more fun when you make up facts but if you dig up a lil document called the Treaty of Tripoli you'll find this little ditty:

"...the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion..."

This was written in 1796. By our founding fathers... who weren't so "Christian" themselves. I mean obviously since this document was written to declare who we were as a nation to a foreign country.

Can you imagine the kind of stink it would raise if something like that was written today? Hoo boy.

Now before you get your knickers in a twist understand I'm not saying we can't participate in the Christian faith. That wonderful first amendment in the U.S. Constitution, written by those secular founding father dudes, ensures we can.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Doesn't that make you feel more American just reading it? These were the values our country was founded upon, and protecting these rights is our moral obligation.

Which kind of brings us full circle back to the issue of an Islamic cultural center near Ground Zero.

We don't have to join a mosque or even believe in what it teaches to support it being built. It has a right to be built on American soil - where patriots have fought and died for our freedoms making it the *ultimate* hallowed ground. This is true whether it's in New York City or in Murfreesboro, Tennessee, where - not so ironically enough - they still criticize mosques being built and it's no where NEAR Ground Zero.

People, it is our job to honor and protect that right, especially if we want the right to build a Christian church right next door.

They're not special rights, they're the same rights, and they're not up for debate.

Maybe... just maybe... by extending these olive branches to those who are different and maybe even a lil' scary we'll learn that aside from some cultural stuff we're not that different and there's no need to fear.

And maybe... just possibly maybe... the seeds of peace will sow and we can learn the meaning of this sacred text:

"1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,[b] but have not love, I gain nothing.

4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love."

74 comments:

  1. Quran 3:28 Don't have unbelieving friends unless it is to deceive them. Remember the final goal is to Allah.

    Quran 4:89 Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them.

    Quran 9:33 ISLAM WILL PREVAIL OVER ALL RELIGIONS
    As an AMERICAN I stand up against these Muslims..They ALL read the same book and worship a god that tells them to kill you too! Shame on you for not standing up for the freedoms so many have sacrified their lives for! This is America and we won't go down as ignorant and uneducated as someone like yourself!

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  2. I AM standing up for freedom in a way that you're too afraid to. You're so bound up in your ignorance that you can't even see the contradictions in your own statements, or the hypocrisy behind your own bigoted, ignorant argument.

    I'd wager to guess that you can quote the Quran without having the benefit of reading the whole thing.

    I, on the other hand, will quote a book that I have read and studied for 40 years to see how it measures up:


    Deuteronomy 17:12 Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the Lord your God must die. In this way you will purge the evil from Israel.

    2 Chronicles 15:12-13:
    12 Then they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their ancestors, with all their heart and soul. 13 They agreed that anyone who refused to seek the Lord, the God of Israel, would be put to death—whether young or old, man or woman.

    Deuteronomy 13:7-10:
    7 They might suggest that you worship the gods of peoples who live nearby or who come from the ends of the earth. 8 But do not give in or listen. Have no pity, and do not spare or protect them. 9 You must put them to death! Strike the first blow yourself, and then all the people must join in. 10 Stone the guilty ones to death because they have tried to draw you away from the Lord your God, who rescued you from the land of Egypt, the place of slavery.

    Jeremiah 48:10:
    10 Cursed are those who refuse to do the Lord’s work, who hold back their swords from shedding blood!

    Live in fear, or live in love. It's your choice.

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  3. Do you not understand that those scriptures you wrote pertain to what they did in the PAST, ..Not like the Quran specifically telling them to kill us and their ultimate goal to dominate the world. Quran 3:28 Don't have unbelieving friends unless it is to deceive them. Remember the final goal is Allah. AND Quran 4:34 Orders a man to beat his wife if she doesn't obey him.....Wake up and read what they are being taught. They are decieving you and you refuse to look for the truth. They are NOT your friend..

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  4. Have you read the Quran? Are you Muslim?

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  6. So if you think that Muslims are not our friends, that would then arguably make them our enemies, correct?

    If only there was a sacred text to teach me how to treat my enemies...

    Matthew 5:43-45
    You have heard that it was said "Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.

    John 13:34
    A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

    Romans 12:14
    Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.

    Romans 12:17-18
    17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.

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  7. Jesus did not die in vain..he was the ultimate sacrifice. It wasn't God who sacrificed him it was the non-believers, those that didn't want to believe that he is Jesus, the light and the word of God. The laws of the land and all that they did before Jesus came were what people did, not what God instructed them to do!! Read the 10 commandments..Those are God's Laws! What part of Thou Shall Not Kill don't you understand????

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  8. Okay...Why did you chose to delete your post that I just responded to??? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense does it?

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  9. For starters..Look up Apostates of Islam. (Apostates: One who abandoned one's religious faith.)
    Islam contains a large amount of intense venemous hatred for non-muslims. That will help you gain a bit of knowledge into what their main belief system is all about.

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  10. They are using our beliefs and constitution against us..They are deceiving you! Quaran 3:28 Don't have any unbelieving friends unless it is to deceive them. Remember the final goal is Allah! How about you take your friends back home!

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  11. Angel, are you comprehending any of what Ginger has written in response to your comments? It doesn't appear it's sinking in.

    You can quote passages from the Quran that are violent and hateful towards non believers. But the Christian Bible also holds many of the same kind of passages; violent and hateful towards non believers.

    You say that those passages pertained to the past. How do you know that the passages in the Quran do not pertain to the past as well? Religions do morph with the times and the focus of religions will often change. Do not define them as a whole by the hateful passages you've cherry picked from their holy texts, unless you want the hateful passages in your holy texts to define you. There are MANY so-called Christians who use those hateful texts in the bible to their advantage, to rile people up in order to gain supporters for their un-Christian like causes. The Christians I know (and living in the bible belt, I know a LOT of them) would rather not be lumped into the same group as those people.

    By the same token, the Muslims I know do not wish to be defined by the actions of the terrorist groups.

    It's EXACTLY THE SAME SITUATION from Christianity to Islam. How can you not see that?

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  12. You quoted 2 Chronicles 15:12-13 Which clearly is from the New International Version, which is full of twisted lies. Read your Standard Holy Bible or even the King James version..The chapters only go up to 13 NOT 15!

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  13. You mean different sects within the Christian religion believe different things? Wow! Do you think that applies to any other religion as well? Say, Islam, perhaps?

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  14. Of course they are friendly and building mosque all over United States, not to mention other countries too. They are taught to be decieving and friendly. There are also over 35 home grown Jihad training camps in United States. What is the government doing about that? What will happen when they do build the mosque near ground zero? Do you think it will bring peace? They are just trying to stir the pot.

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  15. I hate to break it to you, but MAN wrote the bible, the qur'an, all "holy" scripture. these religions are not mutually exclusive. check out your history on christianity, judiasm & islam. they all came from the SAME place. God & Allah are the same. why do you think the contexts of each book are similar?

    from the qur'an:

    "Show forgiveness, speak for justice and avoid the ignorant." Chapter 7, Verse 199

    "Repel (evil) with what is better. Then will he, between whom and thee was hatred, become as it were thy friend and intimate. And no one will be granted such goodness except those who exercise patience and self-restraint." Chapter 41, Verse 34 and 35

    "Be quick in the race for forgiveness from your Lord, and for a Garden (paradise) whose width is that of the heavens and of the earth, prepared for the righteous - Those who spend (freely), whether in prosperity or in adversity, who restrain (their) anger and pardon (all) men - for God loves those who do good." Chapter 3, Verses 133-134

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  16. Paula~ At one time I used the New Internation Bible. Because I choose not to close my mind I questioned it. Nothing wrong with getting someone to seek out the answers. That's what spiritual growth is all about. Everyone has the right to choose what they believe in..But when it comes to a religion that is against our freedoms I will not just be passive about it.

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  17. Once again Angel, different sects within the Christian religion believe different things.

    Do you think that applies to any other religion as well? Say, Islam, perhaps?

    The Muslims I know do not want to be associated with those who are extremist. Do not define them all, or even a majority of them, by the beliefs of a few.

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  18. So there are 35 extremist Muslim sects within the US? How many extremist Christian sects are there?

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  19. Paula..Look up home grown jihad training camps in United States.
    They are FAR from any Christian religion! I don't care if you don't believe in God..That isn't my point on this. They all read the Quran and have an agenda.

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  20. Angel - dude, you're missing Paula's point. everyone is going to believe in something. the freak shows that believe that they should kill everyone that don't believe in their religion are extremists. that's why they have their jihadist camps. it's a religious CULT. you have to persuade people to join. tell them that they will have virgins waiting for them in heaven..., etc., so they can either kill everyone else or kill themselves, or both.

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  21. Extremist Muslims do not define the entire Muslim religion any more than the KKK or the Westboro Baptist Church define the entire Christian religion. That is my point. How do you not understand that correlation?

    You are assuming that ALL Muslims are terrorists, that ALL Muslims want Americans dead, that ALL Muslims are violent. They are NOT. The extremist groups are, yes. But they are EXTREMIST groups, which by definition means that they are not the norm.

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  22. Oh I see, you're one of those King James Christians. Mmmkay. So you're not just willing to be exclusive with other religions but those that fall within the context of Christianity as well. Nice to know. (Not especially surprising either.)

    Well there is an easy solution to this. Just ban all religion. Clearly man has no business deciphering the will of God, especially based on archaic texts written by and twisted by mankind based on different cultures and time periods.

    You've demonstrated a very closed mind in that you've already determined how you're going to feel about "the outsiders", and are perfectly comfortable demonizing an entire race/religion to the point of oppression and I might assume expulsion?

    Kinda how the Nazis started their campaign against Jews, wouldn't you say? A nationalist fervor based on irrational fear of an entire group is what starts conflict... not ends them.

    I also note you had nothing to say about the words of Jesus. Interesting.

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  23. I know by my conscience and my spiritual relationship with Christ I must abide by this:

    Romans 12:17-18
    17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.

    Which, if you're going to be a stickler, is this from the KJV (I'm flexible... I read own all translations)

    Romans 12:17-18:

    17Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.

    18If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.


    Hum.... all men. I'm thinkin' that means Muslims as well. All is all is all.

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  24. Funny thing is, where I come from, we refer to 'Allah', not 'God' during a Catholic mass.

    Angel seems to think that Allah and God are not the same. Ask any educated Muslim and he or she will agree that there is only one God.

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  25. i am glad i am an atheist. i have a lot of religious people in my life and almost all of them are as wonderful as Ginger. that is why i say amen to her and i mean that. i respect her beliefs and theirs. some people just want to hate and refuse to look in the mirror. there is no such thing as all of anyone being anything. it is just fear and ignorance. i wish i was as good with words as she is.

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  26. btw, all christian religions "evolved" over the years. each of them broke away from the other because they didn't like certain "rules". so they changed them to suit their needs & renamed them to what they are today.

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  27. When I was a teenager a Jehovah's Witness came to the door and as my devoutly Southern Baptist mother was engaging them in a full on theological argument I just had one question.

    "If there's only one God, how come there are so many different religions?"

    She had nothing to say.

    The reason is exactly what Michelle said. We find the sect that best suits our own selfish agendas and comfort level. For some, this includes hatred.

    Interesting to note it wasn't the "evil" Muslim who has been spewing hateful rhetoric on this thread. Nor has any Muslim ever confronted me with criticism or disdain for my beliefs... that's all been from the Christian branch of the family.

    Jesus must weep.

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  28. I have been engaged in discussions about this topic with a Muslim friend of mine, a very intelligent and peaceful woman I might add. She is very saddened and even scared at times from all the misinformation that is out there about her religion.

    Oh and FYI, "they" don't hate our freedoms. "They" hate our foreign policy. ("They" being extremists, not Muslims as a whole.)

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  29. By the same token, I have a close family member who is a conservative Christian. She is very saddened by those who use God and Jesus to justify their hatred of those who are different.

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  30. http://www.faithfreedom.org/articles/jihad-articles/an-alarming-video-every-westerner-should-see/
    First watch that video and then do a search on Apostates of Islam (those that left the religion.) They will tell you why.

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  31. okay, angel. i'm going to just go ahead and lump you in with the westboro wackos. :)

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  32. Of course, because everything you read and see on the internet is true, and not a bit of it is propaganda put forth by hate groups. My personal experiences with people of the Muslim faith mean nothing in the face of "the internet truth." Glad you cleared that up!

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  33. If you are so certain of yourself..PLEASE ask your friend that practices the Quran teachings what these scriptures mean...I would really like a CLEAR answer!

    Quran 3:28 Don't have unbelieving friends unless it is to deceive them. Remember the final goal is to Allah.

    Quran 4:89 Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them.

    Quran 9:33 ISLAM WILL PREVAIL OVER ALL RELIGIONS

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  34. Angel I think it's quite sad that you'd rather engage in hateful dialogue than address the scriptures (commandments) of peace offered. It makes it impossible to take anything you say seriously, because it's evident you're determined to keep the blinders on and stare through a bigoted, hateful prism. You won't even entertain anything that doesn't fit your narrow agenda.

    So what's your solution? You have a lot of outrage and stark terror... where does it get better? What will make you happy? Because obviously this is a lot more deep seated than just an Islamic cultural center being built in Manhattan.

    (Although folks like you are reason number one it should be built.)

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  35. You say Jesus didn't die in vain. He most certainly did if all you can find is hatred in your heart for your fellow man.

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  36. seriously, Angel, you keep spouting the same 3 verses from the qur'an, but you never responded to the ones I posted (reposted below). what gives? btw, the bible has the same kill-everyone-that-doesn't-believe quotes, as Ginger already stated. dude, what's with all the hate?

    why don't you open yourself to the love in the world. peace can only be found within yourself. it's not given to you. god can't give it to you. you have to find it for yourself.

    denying people who they are is just wrong. let's agree to disagree on this. you won't change our minds & clearly, we can't change yours. but what is clear is the hate you have for people who aren't like you; believe the things you do. you have a fear of the unknown. go read the rest of the qur'an & see what you think. just because you read it doesn't mean you have to believe it. & remember that God/Allah or whatever you want to call him (or her) is all about love. if your religion teaches hate... well, there's not much of a point, is there?

    again, the problem w/organized religion is that the texts are written my man. & men (& women) are fallible. some will use whatever they can to get what they want. those w/out a strong character, w/a need to belong, can be used as pawns in peoples' games.

    believe what you want, but don't use it as a reason to hate. being angry all the time is exhausting. don't you think?

    from the qur'an:

    "Show forgiveness, speak for justice and avoid the ignorant." Chapter 7, Verse 199

    "Repel (evil) with what is better. Then will he, between whom and thee was hatred, become as it were thy friend and intimate. And no one will be granted such goodness except those who exercise patience and self-restraint." Chapter 41, Verse 34 and 35

    "Be quick in the race for forgiveness from your Lord, and for a Garden (paradise) whose width is that of the heavens and of the earth, prepared for the righteous - Those who spend (freely), whether in prosperity or in adversity, who restrain (their) anger and pardon (all) men - for God loves those who do good." Chapter 3, Verses 133-134

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  37. I'm still waiting for an answer and all you can talk about is the Bible and love..The Bible doesn't condone a FALSE prophet Muhammad..He was evil and decieves many.
    They were so peacefully protesting the cartoons of Muhammad..With their signs saying "Behead those that insult Islam"..So loving don't you think? They beat women and stone people all in the name of Islam. They cheered in the streets after 9/11..So much love they bring. They didn't come here for freedom..They came here to change our freedom acting like friends of peace..I wish they came here to escape and find a better way of life. Watch and see..You accept their beliefs but they are taught not to accept yours!

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  38. You still sound like a child. When are you going to start taking responsibility for your hatred and your evil ways? Your unapologetic disregard of the message of Christ (Love your enemies, bless those that curse you, bless and do not curse, blessed is he who is persecuted for my name sake) shows you have no respect for the Christian religion and the fearful disregard of the freedoms of the constitution show you have no real respect for America either.

    Not only do you NOT answer questions directed to you, you claim to want an answer to questions you've already decided the answers to. If Jesus appeared before you and repeated what you should have already learned (and those verses are in the KJV of the Bible too) you'd still find a reason to hate and fear.

    You want to talk about evil... that's it.

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  39. Interesting article, "The Benefit of Islam from a Christian Perspective".

    http://www.arabworldbooks.com/Articles/article95.htm

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  40. [4:88] Why should you divide yourselves into two groups regarding hypocrites (among you)? GOD is the one who condemned them because of their own behavior. Do you want to guide those who are sent astray by GOD? Whomever GOD sends astray, you can never find a way to guide them.
    [4:89] They wish that you disbelieve as they have disbelieved, then you become equal. Do not consider them friends, unless they mobilize along with you in the cause of GOD. If they turn against you, you shall fight them, and you may kill them when you encounter them in war. You shall not accept them as friends, or allies.
    [4:90] Exempted are those who join people with whom you have signed a peace treaty, and those who come to you wishing not to fight you, nor fight their relatives. Had GOD willed, He could have permitted them to fight against you. Therefore, if they leave you alone, refrain from fighting you, and offer you peace, then GOD gives you no excuse to fight them.
    [4:91] You will find others who wish to make peace with you, and also with their people. However, as soon as war erupts, they fight against you. Unless these people leave you alone, offer you peace, and stop fighting you, you may fight them when you encounter them. Against these, we give you a clear authorization.

    ****************************

    This is just their right to fight against those who declare war upon them. You've clearly taken this completely out of context. But there are also similar verses in the Christian Bible. Take Romans 13 for instance:

    Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
    Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
    Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
    Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.

    ******************************

    Quran, Sura 9 verse 33 says:

    [9:33] He is the One who sent His messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, and will make it dominate all religions, in spite of the idol worshipers.

    But to follow up with this passage, take a look at 2:136:

    Say, "We believe in GOD, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs; and in what was given to Moses and Jesus, and all the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are submitters."

    Do you see what it says there? They submit only to God, but they believe in what was given to the world through Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and JESUS. They may not believe as Christians do that he was the son of God, but they do believe in embodying the teachings of the righteous prophets of God, including Jesus.

    The two religions (Christianity and Islam) really aren't that different except culturally.

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  41. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  42. I meant to add, in 9:33 when they speak of dominating all religions, does the bible not say that those who follow Christianity will prevail over other religions? I think it does. How about in 1 Peter 2:

    7Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

    8And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

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  43. One last thought (for now) on the subject.

    Terrorism makes the news. Quiet piety does not. It's no wonder so many people associate Islam with terrorism. It's the same reason why people from other countries think Americans are fat, stupid and lazy. Those things make the news. It's sensationalism. Get out there in the real world and have your own experiences upon which to draw from rather than taking a news clip of an extremist group and applying it to everyone.

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  44. I heart you back, Ginger. And the next time I talk to my friend, I will ask her about the passages in question. That is, if Angel will answer to the similar passages in the Christian Bible. I know you can, but I want to know if Angel can. :)

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  45. I look forward to hearing her interpretation. In fact this whole discussion has made me want to read the Quran to understand it, and the Muslim religion, a little better. I'm sure stacked against the Bible they're probably very similar.

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  46. there's a book call A History of God. very interesting read.

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  47. I'll def check that out. :)

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  48. The Quaran teaches them to deny Jesus as the Son of God..
    The Bible says:
    "Believe not every spirit, but try the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby ye know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ IS COME IN THE FLESH is of God: And every spirit that confesseth NOT that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God; and this is that spirit of anti-christ, whereof ye have heard that it should come." "And we have seen and do testify that the FATHER sent the SON to be the Savior of the world. Whoever shall confess that Jesus is the SON of God, God dwelleth in him." -- 1 John 4:1-3,14,15"

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  49. Angel, would you be JUST as opposed to a Synagogue being built three blocks from the WTC site? Because Jewish people also do not believe that Jesus is the son of God.

    But you're diverting from the topic. Can you answer the questions posed to you, or answer to the comparisons between the Bible and the Quran, or are you just going to ignore them and point to other things in hopes that we'll just forget what we were talking about in the first place?

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  50. As a Christian I'm kind of offended she's still trying to invoke the Bible as some sort of reason to justify her hateful, bigoted ways that are completely opposed to the teaching of Christ.

    And that she uses the KJV as her ultimate authority just adds to the piety.

    Another interesting article about the Imam behind the Islamic cultural center:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/685071

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  51. Muhammad stole Biblical scriptures then added to it.
    I do pray for all those that deny Jesus..That they will come to repentance and be saved.
    “Jesus saith unto him, I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, and THE LIFE: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me” (John 14:6). Mary CANNOT save you. The Pope CANNOT save you. The priest CANNOT forgive your sins. Only Jesus CAN save you and forgive your sins.

    I hope you recognize the deception that is among us..God loves us and wants us all to find him.
    Do you believe the words of Jesus or the words of Muhammad?

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  52. Islam is a threat to all countries. Their goal is to dominate and control all countries. That my friend isn't religious tolorance.
    http://www.islamicstateofamerica.com/index.html

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  53. I not only believe in the words of Christ but I live them by loving my fellow man. You're the one who is still trying to demonize and justify hatred and bigotry.

    You're the one I pray for.

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  54. To be a Christian is to love..Where does it say I hate them? You can hate sin, evil, those are actions..that doesn't say hate the people! I reject Sharia Law that Islam is trying to inflict on all countries. If you think that is okay you are wrong..You are the one trying to use scriptures to protect all their actions.

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  55. Angel's "loving" words towards her fellow humans:

    They are deceiving you!
    How about you take your friends back home!
    They are taught to be decieving and friendly. They are just trying to stir the pot.
    But when it comes to a religion that is against our freedoms I will not just be passive about it.
    They all read the Quran and have an agenda.
    They came here to change our freedom acting like friends of peace.
    Islam is a threat to all countries. Their goal is to dominate and control all countries.

    You say to hate the sin and love the people, but in all of those statements above (copied and pasted directly from your own comments) you attack the PEOPLE.

    I don't accept the "love the sinner, hate the sin" philosophy anyway. Why? Because when you give people the okay to hate, even just a little bit, it spreads like wildfire. Hatred is negative, and it breeds more negativity. Additionally, the line between the actions and the person is very blurry, and most people have a difficult time separating the two. For instance, would you be willing to say that you love Osama bin Laden? Not many people would, even those who profess to "love the sinner and hate the sin." The two become one quite easily, at which point you begin to hate both.

    AND, I see you have yet to answer anything I have asked of you. You are still attempting to use diversionary tactics to steer the conversation in a different direction. That only makes it more and more clear that you have no valid answers. But I'm still going to continue to ask you until you come up with something. Let me outline once again what's been asked of you that you have failed to answer.

    Different sects within the Christian religion believe different things. Don't you think that applies to other religions as well? Say, Islam, perhaps?

    So there are 35 extremist Muslim sects within the US? How many extremist Christian sects are there?

    Does the bible not say that those who follow Christianity will prevail over other religions? I think it does.

    Would you be JUST as opposed to a Synagogue being built three blocks from the WTC site? Because Jewish people also do not believe that Jesus is the son of God.

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  56. HUGE difference..A Jewish synagogue wouldn't bother me at all..They aren't out to destroy America!!

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  57. But Angel, there are plenty of extremist Christian groups out there who believe that the Jews ARE out to destroy America. In that case, what is the difference between Judaism and Islam?

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  58. My husband just responded with the answer to that one..
    The Jews don't want to harm you..they just want to take all your money.

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  59. I won't comment on that ridiculous statement except to ask if you and your husband are Mel Gibson fans.

    Regardless, you are still totally missing the point. And you still haven't given a valid answer to the questions I've asked of you. (The last answer wasn't yours, it was your husband's.)

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  60. My husband's favorite uncle is Jewish and our CPA for both our businesses. So he was merely kidding around..
    As far as my answer goes~
    If you can prove that the Muslims aren't planning all of which I wrote in my past postings..I will have no reason to fear them. If their ultimate goal is to take over America and other countries, force upon us the Sharia Law, and kill all of those that do not believe, I certainly do not want to accept that!

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  61. We can prove nothing of the sort to you because you already have made up your mind. You're only going to hear and believe what fits into that tiny little spot you have already allotted.

    Plus you keep demanding that which you will not give yourself. I've asked you what the solution is - if you fear all Muslims, what's your solution to "protect" yourself from this "dastardly" plan?

    It surely doesn't stop at one Islamic cultural center being built.

    I think the reason you steadfastly refuse to answer it is because you know yourself that by voicing what you really believe you'll have to face that the one acting unconstitutionally here is you.

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  62. I would like to thank you for participating in the thread, though, Angel. Because you've demonstrated the reason why it needed to be written in the first place.

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  63. Ginger: "We can prove nothing of the sort to you because you already have made up your mind. You're only going to hear and believe what fits into that tiny little spot you have already allotted."
    Angel: I've been waiting for you to prove it all along..What's stopping you?
    Americans need to know the truth. Islam and Sharia Law is affecting many countries including Europe.

    Tell me why Americans shouldn't be concerned??
    You don't have an answer do you? Since you haven't displayed one yet I take that as a no.

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  64. This is impossible to prove to you Angel. I can show you examples of peaceful Muslims, but you won't believe that they are truly peaceful. You have already made up your mind that EVERY. SINGLE. MUSLIM. in the world is out to get you and they are lying about their peaceful intent in order to fool you. Nothing I show you can PROVE that the peaceful Muslims are truly peaceful, because you can't prove or disprove a thought; it's intangible.

    We have proof of the actions of the extremist groups. We've seen what they have done. We've heard their words. These are things that are tangible, things that have already been done, things we can see or hear for ourselves. But those are EXTREMIST groups. They don't include every single person who studies that religion. And just as I can't prove that the peaceful Muslims are truly, to-the-core peaceful, neither can you prove that they aren't. The actions of Muslims who are not extremists have thus far demonstrated peace. Neither of us can prove what they will do in the future, BUT that can be said about EVERY person in this world. You can't prove something based on things that have not happened. The circumstances are completely suppositional and as such have no basis in reality. (Ten points to anyone who can identify the origin of that sentence!! LOL)

    Are you with me this far, or do I need to explain more? Because I'd like to point out, yet AGAIN, that there are extremist groups in every religion, EVEN CHRISTIANITY. The actions and words of those extremists cannot be applied to everyone who is of the same religion.

    Extremist Christians have killed doctors for performing abortions, assassinated politicians, murdered celebrities, protested at the funerals of soldiers, and led their followers into death. Because you are a Christian also, I am going to assume that you are, at some point in the future, going to kill a doctor, assassinate a politician, murder a celebrity, protest a soldier's funeral, and make your children drink kool-aid laced with poison. Is this a fair assessment?

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  65. Angel, this entire thread of comments has provided proof to you that your views are just as extremist as the views of the people that attacked us. I posted a link on Islam from a Christian perspective, by someone who actually was born in Iraq which is over 95% Muslim (my guess is you do not know any Muslims personally, at least very well). There's also this link:

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_MOSQUE_FACT_CHECK?SITE=AZPHG&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

    Which proves that the whole Ground Zero Mosque thing is just an election year rallying cry for the GOP and not a legitimate issue (Muslim prayer has been allowed in the Pentagon since 2001 for instance).

    Then there's this:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/685071

    That proves that the Imam was actually considered at MODERATE who helped the government with anti-terrorism efforts.

    Then of course there are the efforts of Michelle and Paula in this thread that basically unraveled your out of context Quran passages and spoke from perspectives of actually knowing other world religions.

    So the evidence is vast and wide... just like your unwillingness to accept it.

    You don't want to be fair. You want to be right. And scared.

    I feel sad for you.

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  66. Then I dare you to read this~
    (It isn't the only Muslim that speaks out about Islam.)
    http://pedestrianinfidel.blogspot.com/2006/02/inside-forbidden-fortress.html

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  67. And don't forget to read the comments afterwards..

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  68. Like I said. You've already made up your mind. Enjoy your hatred and fear. It's working so well for you.

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  69. For they shall be called Children of God:

    http://blog.sojo.net/2010/08/19/for-they-shall-be-called-children-of-god/

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  70. Angel still has not answered my questions, which I have repeated for her several times.

    Different sects within the Christian religion believe different things. Don't you think that applies to other religions as well? Say, Islam, perhaps?

    So there are 35 extremist Muslim sects within the US? How many extremist Christian sects are there?

    Does the bible not say that those who follow Christianity will prevail over other religions? I think it does.

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  71. Both of the Translations were right.. depending on the translation of the Quran used.
    Islam is hiding behind many different translations.
    The English Quran is deliberately changed with the intent to present the Quran in an acceptable form to the Western world readers.

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  72. Also..Why on earth would our government allow over 35 Jihad terrorist training camps to form in United States and still be practicing gorilla warfare to be used against us??? The documentary was on the news and never dealt with! They came right out and told us what they were doing here..Now if someone plots a murder they get arrested right? Then what is going on? Fear stems off of stuff like that..You can't just call someone a bigot and think they have no valid fear..I have kids too and want the best for them and my grand kids..and all the future generations.

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  73. Why don't you ask Fox News why one of their shareholders is paying hundreds of thousands of dollars into Muslim projects... including the "Ground Zero Mosque"? Meanwhile they're getting people like you all riled up that Muslims are extremists out to kill us.

    Interesting, no?

    Listen. Bad people do bad things, and they use a plethora of reasons to justify it. Many times that's religion - and this includes extremists who are supposedly Christian.

    But taking an entire group of people under one umbrella and painting them evil is what Nazi Germany did.

    And that's what is truly evil.

    Be scared if you want to, but I choose to live and walk in faith and love. Kinda like that chap Jesus did.

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